Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

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29 Responses to Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

  1. Francis Philip says:

    History links Mohammed’s traditional influence to the Hebrews and Catholics, I.e., praying several times daily, praying eastward, giving alms, etc.

  2. Francis Philip says:

    There is ample written and experiential evidence for Christ. But, God probably keeps atheists from knowing and understanding because they choose not to know or understand on God’s terms and timing.

    • satanicviews says:

      You would be wrong about that, it is extraordinary, but there is no written evidence of Jesus contemporary from the time when he was alive. The first written claims about Jesus happened decades, even a hundred years later. The written record fails to support the existence of Jesus as a historical living figure.

      • Francis Philip says:

        And you do not accept truth. But that is your challenge to overcome.

      • satanicviews says:

        No, because I accept nothing on faith. I am happy to hold a theory, but it must be supported through the testing of the empirical standard of observation, demonstration or experience. Untested information is ignorant opinion.

      • Francis Philip says:

        It is in your case because you say so. But in truth, it is not so in my case.

      • satanicviews says:

        I can only judge you by what you so far have written here, which suggests ignorance rather than the light of reason guides your conclusions.

      • Francis Philip says:

        One who hasn’t knowledge is not really able to judge. Wouldn’t you agree?

        Why is it that some are so eager to label, classify and put away others who are not like them? What is the motivation there? Likewise, what moves a child to bully another child? Perhaps the two situations are similar. I don’t know, but it would make a good experiment.

        My faith is based in part on experience, not just inference. But one may choose not to accept my word until one also has the same experience. If that is the case, it does not remove the fact of my experience even though the whole world might doubt.

        Most people who read history books only know past people through inference, not experience. Yet, they believe fully that these people existed.

        Even though the men and women who lived, heard and saw Jesus Christ in the flesh and spread their accounts orally until the accounts could be written for various groups and preached, and even though the accounts were thought to be so very important that people close to Jesus preserved them and passed them on, and given that these accounts have been well-preserved and the tradition maintained with integrity, how a person could choose to deny the veracity of those accounts, yet believe in other historical persons without any evidence, well…it is an interesting problem for that one…think about it.

        The light is brighter and clearer than you think. The news is better than you think. There is reason for hope for you. You can see clearly if you want to. It is your choice. Make a choice for happiness and light. 😀

      • satanicviews says:

        It is my general observation that the Christians walk in the darkness of ignorance. Of course the experience of the spiritual is a sacred personal experience, and no other but the individual may know it. However, when one individual asks another to believe based on faith what they have not experienced, it might be considered unreasonable to expect that to be of any benefit to others.

      • Francis Philip says:

        I think that a Christian trained and studied in his religion can judge the ignorance of a Christian, but not one who is not. For example, a teacher of biology can judge the ignorance of a teacher of biology, but a student of physical science would be unfit to judge a teacher of biology. Would you agree?

      • satanicviews says:

        People can judge others from within the boundaries of their own paradigm or worldview, but it could be the paradigm was wrong in the first place. One flat-earther might say another flat-earther is wise for believing in their paradigm, but is the earth really flat?

      • Francis Philip says:

        We humans have the capacity for reason and for accepting what is true, whether through direct experience or through inference which comes with an obviously high probability of veracity. But we can choose to doubt anyway. That is the crux of the matter.

  3. learner99 says:

    I must agree, if you make a claim you need some type of proof to back it up. The bigger the claim the bigger the proof. I claim Allah is the almighty God, and your proof is the holy Quran. Go read it, look into its history, look at its structure, and then you will realize whether my claim is true or not.

    • satanicviews says:

      Everyone claims their book was sourced from a holy source, claims that cannot be supported by empirical evidence. The Quran has a certain organized structure, but that is because it is sourced from the oral tradition that needs that structure to remember it.

  4. The atheist claim that everything just happened all by itself is what is extraordinary.

    But just try asking an atheist for any kind of evidence supporting it.

    • satanicviews says:

      When you throw dice, are they random, or is an entity controlling the outcomes? Nature is mostly random, throwing dice, so that by accident the big bang can happen, and life can appear on this planet, without a first cause.

      • satanic,

        The randomness in nature is subject to the laws of nature.

        Consequently, natural randomness is subject to mathematical analysis (statistics) since mathematics is the language of the laws of nature (science).

        Before the universe came into being, there were no laws of nature and thus, no randomness either.

      • satanicviews says:

        There is no such thing as laws of nature, these are inventions of humanity. there are common patterns, such as randomness, from which humanity might infer principles and laws in nature.

        Nature has always existed, and will always exist. In the beginning there is chaos, and from this all things arise, and randomness is a quality of chaos.

        You are also wrong about randomness being subject to any laws, it has no master, the laws that humanity likes to create are wiped out when chaos presents itself.

        Nothing is certain, and nothing is deterministic in nature, the randomness and other qualities makes nature beyond the ability of humanity to predict or control.

      • Satanic,

        If you want to discover a law of nature for yourself, take a flying leap off the roof of your choice.

        If you survive your discovery you could call it “gravity.”

        The claim that their are no laws of nature is to harken back to prehistoric times of superstition, before man discovered fire (which itself is governed by the laws of nature).

      • satanicviews says:

        Your grasp of objective truth and logic is shaky. If I jumped off a roof with a parachute or other technical invention I might survive the pattern of gravity.

        Regardless if fire was attributed to a spirit or a law, these are human inventions of a manifested pattern in nature, and there is no guarantee that a pattern will repeat, because it all depends upon the hidden variables in play bringing about the manifested outcome. There is nothing superstitious about patterns, they are an objective truth.

      • Satanic,

        The efficacy of a parachute is based on Newton’s Laws of Motion.

        It is precisely those laws of motion by which it is determined the effective size of your parachute.

        For if the parachute is too small, gravity accelerates your body so that you might still not survive the fall.

        And if the parachute is too large, your flight toward the center of the gravity field will be so unstable as to actually add to the force of gravity, making your fall even more perilous.

        Also, would your parachute work on the Mercury or the Moon where there is no air?

        It is true that the laws of nature are patterns.

        But they are very special patterns that permit the invention of technology which is an expression of not patterns in general, but very specific natural laws.

      • satanicviews says:

        You confirm my point that rather than laws or rules, there are variables in play, that through their interactions bring about various outcomes. Whilst a so-called law might be true given a certain set of circumstances, if there is even a small change, addition or deletion of a variable, the end result is different.

      • satanic,

        I refuted your argument about patterns. Now you are changing your argument to one of variables.

        Of course there are variables. That is because we live in a dynamic universe.

        But natural dynamism still follows the laws of nature.

        And because of that we are able to make sense of the variables and patterns.

        Without laws which govern, there is no way to know if a pattern we detect makes any sense.

        For that reason, someone of your mindset will believe in a hoax like global warming.

        Someone comes up with a pattern, sells it to the ignorant, and voila! to you, it’s science.

        That’s not the way it works.

      • satanicviews says:

        The dynamic in nature is based on the opposites in conflict, which gives rise to change, motion and outcomes. Objects (variables) come out of patterns which draw to themselves the random objects of chaos, like the magnetic field of a magnet can order the random scattering of iron filings.

        The human brain is designed to try and make sense of the random and ordering patterns of nature, and will attempt to define by artificial means, such as creating gods or laws, to explain what it experiences.

        Someone of my mindset questions everything and accepts nothing on faith. I reject many of the arguments of global warming, the idea that it is man-made, when I know from my knowledge of history that climate change is often natural. History shows that climate is ever-changing and has been moving in cycles of warm and cold since the earth began. The climate is changing in an adverse direction, but it is natural, and will bring with it war and a potential ending of current civilization; a situation that nobody can do anything about.

        Patterns is all that an individual can know, and then they can either live in harmony with the pattern, or fight a fruitless battle against it. Even science can be blind, which is a reflection of human nature which can fall for religious fictions such as the Earth being aged only 6000 years, or the science of global warming that claims humanity is to blame for it.

      • Satanic,

        Your statement,

        “The dynamic in nature is based on the opposites in conflict, which gives rise to change, motion and outcomes,”

        comes from a time and place that is pre-scientific and thus, probably Marxist.

      • satanicviews says:

        What is truth stands the test of time.

        As an example of the truth of opposites. The ability to think is because of the opposites of two unequal sides of neural path, causing a charge to move from one side to the other. The same is true of the heart. Without opposites based upon two unequal sides your heart and brain is unable to function, only death is the result.

      • satanic,

        Modern science has not only stood the test of time, it has produced the greatest, healthiest most technologically advanced civilization in human history.

        Whereas, your way thinking never made it past the slave, beast of burden and bone grinding poverty.

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