Asking if there is no god…

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28 Responses to Asking if there is no god…

  1. Silence – the issue is not what happened by humanity, but what the Bible, which is supposedly inspired by the God of Abraham, has to say about slavery. It does not condemn it but tells slaves how to treat their masters and the masters, the rules and regulations in how to handle their slaves. THAT is the issue.

    • aka,

      Slavery used to be an ingrained, rock solid, institution employed by all of mankind regardless of culture or location on the Earth.

      It simply isn’t rational to blame God because he met man at his own level of savagery and began working to make him better.

      • Is the God of Abraham that weak that God cannot convince humanity to not have slaves in the first place? Why tell the Hebrews how to handle their slaves, either by letting them go, or if they marry one of your slaves that they must stay with the Hebrew slave-owner forever? Why would the God of Abraham educate the slave owner that it is okay to beat your slaves, as long as they can get up on the third day and return to work?

        That does not sound like slavery being an abomination to me.

  2. Hairy H says:

    Hey Silence, feast your eyes upon this pearl of wisdom from the Bible:

    • Deut 20:10 When you approach a city to wage war against it, offer it terms of peace.
    • Deut 20:11 If it accepts your terms and submits to you, all the people found in it will become your slaves.
    • Deut 20:12 If it does not accept terms of peace but makes war with you, then you are to lay siege to it.
    • Deut 20:13 The LORD your God will deliver it over to you and you must kill every single male by the sword.
    • Deut 20:14 However, the women, little children, cattle, and anything else in the city – all its plunder – you may take for yourselves as spoil. You may take from your enemies the plunder that the LORD your God has given you.

    Please kindly note, that in the above verses God COMMANDS the Israelite to take slaves. So, not only allows and regulates, but commands to take slaves.
    Of course these slaves were the lucky ones. As they have been given the opportunity and the privilege to be slaves to God’s chosen people, unlike the inhabitants of the cities in the following verses:

    • Deut 20:16 As for the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is going to give you as an inheritance, you must not allow a single living thing to survive.
    • Deut 20:17 Instead you must utterly annihilate them – the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites – just as the LORD your God has commanded you,

    You should look up those verses, where God is really pissed off with the Israelite for not following the commands properly and keeping some of the people and a cattle a live for themselves.

    • Hairy,

      Your quotes are God laying the ground work for just war doctrine.

    • silence – do you not believe God stays the same “yesterday, today and forever”? If so, why would God change its mind about slavery? It explains in one part of the bible to treat slaves in one particular way, and it never says to not own slaves elsewhere.

      If you could not understand the comparison, silence, then our conversation is going to be limited in a most extreme manner.

      Thanks for the time, but I doubt we have anything more to discuss.

      • ata,

        God is indeed the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

        But man isn’t.

        You may have noticed how Christian Western Civilization led the world in the understanding of science, free market capitalism and human rights.

      • silence – You said, “God is indeed the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. But man isn’t.” Are you saying, then, that God did not give any guidance to the bible, that the issue of slavery was all on humankind?

      • ata,
        Slavery disappeared from Europe as it Greco-Roman paganism yielded to Christianity.

        And maybe you can tell us all, when it was exactly that the Jews quit using slaves.

      • Silence – the issue is not what happened by humanity, but what the Bible, which is supposedly inspired by the God of Abraham, has to say about slavery. It does not condemn it but tells slaves how to treat their masters and the masters, the rules and regulations in how to handle their slaves. THAT is the issue.

      • ata,
        Slavery is an abomination. That is what the Bible says about slavery.

        The two greatest events in the Bible are God freeing the Hebrews from slavery to Pharaoh and Jesus dying on the Cross to free all mankind from slavery to sin.

        Ata, you are taking material written for a specific purpose and hallucinating a whole new alternate meaning for it.

        Then you blame your hallucination on God and expect me to explain your hallucination.

  3. Avril says:

    Many of the Hebrews had slaves.

    • Avril – Sssshhhh! It is unfair to use facts in these conversations, apparently! You might upset the poor person who is trying to sugar-coat the bible.

      • Avril says:

        You’re hysterical. Check out my blog. I’m not athiest; but, I’d love to hear your thoughts. There is room for all perspectives. Even ones steeped in mythology.

      • ata,

        When was the last time a Hebrew had a slave?

        When was the last time there were slaves in Europe?

  4. Only an atheist could and would equate Creator with Slave Master and human life with slavery.

    That’s why atheism is so dangerous.

    • Silence – why is it so dangerous? It was a metaphor, for gosh sakes. After all, the Christian population exudes endless claims of to do whatever God says, no matter how reasonable it may or may not be. I would think that would be FAR MORE DANGEROUS than people who think for themselves and use ethics and morality which stem from caring about one another.

      • ata,

        Slavery is all about the violation of humanity and in that world, the atheist, fancies himself the master.

        So the atheist must create God in his own image and the rest of mankind as slave.

        How do I know that? Because atheists have already done that and continue to do that.

      • Silence – sorry, but it is the Bible which has promoted the concept of slavery throughout its numerous books.

        Do you have any examples of how atheism promotes slavery?

      • ata,

        Sorry but the Bible does not promote slavery.

        In fact, the greatest event in the Old Testament is God freeing the Hebrews from slavery to Pharaoh.

      • Silence – sorry but I have some rather discouraging news for you. The bible DOES talk about slavery – promoting it.

        Exodus 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

        Now, if the master gives him a wife, the slave must remain with the master after the 7 years.

        Exodus 21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself.
        21:5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:

        Exodus even talks about how to punish the slaves so as to not cause problems with God:

        21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
        21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

        How about this?

        Leviticus 25:44-46
        Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever.

        Titus 2:9-10
        Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

        1 Peter 2:18
        Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

        Notice that NONE of this says anything about condemning slavery, but giving guidelines about how to treat your slaves, and if you are a slave, how to act with your master.

        You said the Bible condemns slavery? No, it does not.

      • Ata,

        Yes, I’ve seen all the atheist cut and paste hack jobs on the Bible.

        There is not one verse in all your quotes that condones slavery.

        The reason you think the Bible condones slavery is because you want it to.

      • silence – oh, so I am an atheist? Interesting. I wonder when that happened.

        I only cut and pasted passages out of the bible – not anything twisted. How is it condemning slavery when it gives instructions on how slaves should be punished, how slaves must treat their masters, etc? Why does it not just condemn slavery right out front, instead of giving instructions on how to treat them, as I posted for you?

      • ata,
        In all the quotes you provided, God is providing very valuable lessons.

        One of which is if you want to get rid of something, regulate it.

        It has also escaped your notice that as Christianity replaced Greco-Roman paganism, slavery ceased to exist as an institution in Europe and all of Christendom.

        And slavery also disappeared from Hebrew culture.

      • If you want to get rid of something, regulate it? So, if you want to get rid of alcohol, place regulations on it?

        I thought the God of Abraham was omniscient and this deity could just proclaim that, for example, “slavery is bad” and state that it needs to just go away.

        In the time of humanity, it is fairly recently when slavery diminished the concept of slavery, yet it states time and again, that even God commands to take certain people, as victors, as slaves. If God were so against slavery, why make such a claim in the first place?

      • ata,

        That regulation diminishes economic activity is a law of economics.

        But you trying to compare alcohol with slavery is the usual atheist use of logical fallacy this one being the comparison of apples and oranges.

        Imbibing alcoholic beverages is not a crime against humanity while slavery is.

        Consequently you also demonstrate that atheists have no moral compass whatsoever since not a one of you can tell the difference between drinking a beer and owning another human being.

      • Apparently, the issue of using an example to use as a comparative eluded you. I can say the same thing about your lack of sensory understanding about what I posted.

        Again, I am not an atheist. I do not know where you got that ludicrous idea.

        If slavery is a crime against humanity, why does the bible still promote, both in the OT and NT the concept of slavery, instructing slave owners how to treat their slaves, and how slaves should behave toward their masters?

        So, again, why would the bible, as you seem to think it is the Word of God, condemn slavery right out, instead of doing, like you said, to regulate it to make it less pleasing? You have yet to address that issue, and instead, look for petty issues in which you hope to be able to create a negative insult.

      • aka,
        Your use of alcohol as an example was meaningless. You couldn’t have been referring to the Prohibition could you have?

        My goodness! You folks have to go back to the Bronze Age to blame God for slavery.

        And then you mention “alcohol” and expect the world to kneel.

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